Monte brakes.....

[TeamTotalWankel]

well it doesn't actually!! It never ceases to amaze me how bad the brakes are on the old girl each time I get in it after driving anything else. It passed its MOT the other day but I need to sort it if I'm going to get some decent use out of it this year.

In 1977 the Lancia Montecarlos were reknowned for having poor brakes, so you can imagine how they feel 35yrs on, and it now has 150BHP which doesn't help As std it had piddling little 227x10mm discs all round, and used to be servo assisted just on the fronts (mega wet weather lock-ups!! ) but this has long since gone.

A while back I upgraded the fronts to 240x20mm Uno turbo discs and used Ford calipers as these happen to have the same piston size as the originals. This stopped the horrendous brake fade / fluid boiling but didn't really add to the overall stopping power. The 240's were chosen to fit inside the std 13" wheels. I've now got 14" wheels so have a bit more room to play with Ideally I'd like 257x20mm vented discs all round, but that's proving a bit tricky. The fronts should be easy-ish by just making new caliper brackets to replace the custom ones I already have on there. However the rears are proving trickier. I need a 'leading' rear caliper c/w handbrake that will fit a 257x20mm disc with a piston size as near to 38mm as possible. I thought I'd cracked it with MR2 ones but a trial fit showed these to be far too bulky to be considered So, unless someone has the answer on here then I'm looking at another option. I'm looking to 'space-out' the existing caliper and fit a 257x12mm solid disc. This isn't quite as straight-forward as it sounds though. The caliper is only moving out 15mm (30mm / 2) leaving no room to fit a bracket in between it and the hub. The std disc has an overall depth of 50mm and I've found a 257mm disc with a 40mm height. I reckon this'll allow me to get a 10mm bracket in there to space it all out. So here come's the question - I was going to make the bracket out of 50x10mm flat alloy bar, will this be suitable? The hole centres (M10 bolts)from the hub and caliper carrier will only be 15mm apart so can't see there been too much stress on it. I'm gonna make sure there's plenty of 'meat' around it too. Or should I just do it in the heavier and harder to work with steel??

[owelly]

The correct answer is for you to make the ally carriers out of the correct grade of ally. I made some for my mates rally car out of some random bits of ally and even though the tapped holes were quite near to the edge, they're still going (stopping) strong after several rallies. Those Diahatsu Applause calipers I have used are tiny wee. I can whip one off the car tomorrow to measure the piston if it pleases you?

ETA, a quick google suggests the piston are 30mm.

[owelly]

http://www.brakepartssuperstore.org.uk/ ... d5667.html

[TeamTotalWankel]

The correct answer is for you to make the ally carriers out of the correct grade of ally. I made some for my mates rally car out of some random bits of ally and even though the tapped holes were quite near to the edge, they're still going (stopping) strong after several rallies. Those Diahatsu Applause calipers I have used are tiny wee. I can whip one off the car tomorrow to measure the piston if it pleases you?

ETA, a quick google suggests the piston are 30mm.

You sound just like that bloke off LCB
I'm considering some random ally too. The forces involved here aren't really gonna be that great. If it was a 400bhp+ 4x4 running slicks then maybe I'd be looking at a way to machine 'Unobtainium' The Daihatsu ones look a bit tiddly TBH and really I'm after some to take a vented disc for the future. Once I've made them and am sure all's well I may get a top machinist (know anyone ) to use them as a pattern to make some steel ones.

PS. Where's jaffa, does he want those wheels I offered him?

[Relentless Rob]

Can you raid the parts bin again? Lancia Delta HF or 'gralle, possibly something newer like the Brembo four pots from the Fiat Coupe.

Failing that you could always give Hi-Spec or OBP a call.

[TeamTotalWankel]

Can you raid the parts bin again? Lancia Delta HF or 'gralle, possibly something newer like the Brembo four pots from the Fiat Coupe.

Failing that you could always give Hi-Spec or OBP a call.

I'm raidng the bin for the rear discs, they're from a 93-99 Punto (257x12mm). I'm happy enough with the fronts for now and have to be wary of the piston sizes on the big 4 pots.

[Relentless Rob]

I have a pair of N/A 16V Fiat Coupe rear calipers in my shed you can have. I'm not 100% sure but I think the disc are either the same size or the same as front Cinquecento ones.

[TeamTotalWankel]

I have a pair of N/A 16V Fiat Coupe rear calipers in my shed you can have. I'm not 100% sure but I think the disc are either the same size or the same as front Cinquecento ones.

Ta Rob, but with 34mm pistons they're not really what I'm after.

Anyway, that was a frustrating evening!!
I based my calculations on internet date about the discs. It stated the Monte ones were 50mm high and my new Punto ones were 40mm. This gave me a nice round 10mm to make my bracket from and everything would fall into place. My new discs arrived today and I got a nice piece of 6082 alloy and set about making the bracket. Spent all evening cutting / drilling / tapping, and I was quite pleased with the end result I trial fitted the bracket and caliper carrier onto the hub and all was well until I tried to fit the new disc. Turns out the Monte disc is 46mm high not 50mm which throws the caliper carrier 4mm out of line!! All is not lost though, I'm going to start all over again but do the bracket in 6mm steel instead

[majic79]

VW Polo front calipers are 48mm diameter pistons - don't know if that helps at all, but there's loads out there and brake discs in 4 stud up to 285mm for the Corrado VR6 and one of the Golfs....

[TeamTotalWankel]

Well, I spent a full evening making a bracket out of 10mm 6082 ally only to find out my calculations had been based on duff internet info on the height of the Monte discs!! I actually needed a 6mm bracket not 10mm!!
So I've reverted to 6mm steel and got a 2ft bar of 6x50mm for £3 from a local engineers

Got a go at it this morning-

Here's the discs for comparison-





Managed to turn this into this-



Because of the closeness of the hole I had trim the point off the bolt head once it was torqued and loctited in place-



And a bit more trimming for clearance-





And all in place



Just need to do the other side before I can go for a road test.

[Rippthrough]

Why not just use a couple of cap screws?

[TeamTotalWankel]

Why not just use a couple of cap screws?

Tried that, but they still needed 'trimming'. So chose to stick with the hex heads as they effectively become semi-captive when in place, making installation a lot easier

[TeamTotalWankel]

Spent most of Saturday replacing the 2 pipes from the brake master cylinder to the resevoir, running along bulkhead behind dash/heater etc. They were original and in a pretty bad way as you can imagine. What a PITA job!! Seat out, glovebox out, column/pedal box dropped etc etc!! But it's done now and shouldn't need doing for another 35yrs The system has some nice fresh AP Racing Dot5 fluid in there now. Also got my heater valve moving while I had my head jammed in the drivers footwell.

Spent yesterday doing my front 'big' brake conversion-



Bracket in place and some minor (few mm) 'shaving' of the hub assembly to allow for the extra 4mm of back spacing of the new 257mm disc.





Only took it out for a quick test drive as the pub was calling me, but even before they're bedded in I'd say there was a BIG difference. The nose actually dips when I press the brake which it never did before!! Hopefully they're going to be just the ticket for 'spirited' road driving

[fha772]

Top work!!! That's looking really good!!

[TeamTotalWankel]

Just been for a proper test drive and it stops really good too!! Well, for a 35yr old Italian sports car anyway The pedal isn't the best, still a bit squidgy but that's down to the pedal / rear caliper design I guess. At least they have some proper power now and I can actually get them to the point of lock up which has never been an option in the last 6-7yrs of ownership!! Overall, for the outlay (less than £100 inc new rear pads and Dot5 fluid) I'm well chuffed