Sublime Panda-monium II

[Rob Bell]

Are those speaker mounts nailed to the dashboard? Classy!

[sportpanda]

While the four speed has nice close ratios ideal for the quarter mile it is in effect a three speed gearbox as you don't need first once the engine has warmed up. My Fantasia four speed maxes out at about 85mph so I'd like to make Guff II capable of over 100mph in so track days are more entertaining.

Don't worry about your top speed on Guff2 as the only reason your standard panda is maxing out is lack of power to pull higher speeds. The standard 5 speed panda has its top speed in 4th (approx 85mph so you are right on the money). With a bit of extra juice (say 100bhp ) you will hit 85 in third.

The five speed boxes have the same first 4 ratios with a higher/overdrive top. While 1st and 2nd are great on the 1/4mile 3rd is a little high giving 85 thro the traps . I assume 4th and 5th are spares

To blitz the 1/4 the 750 box (either 4 or 5 speed) is the killer so I'm told as the lower final drive brings 3rd and 4th into the power band power depending.

[Relentless Rob]

1/ Strip Guff I to make space for...
2/ Project Repo' I'm having to repossess the Seicento because the guy's decided to move house.
3/ Find space for all the stuff I'm storing in Guff I and parts I've removed.
4/ Get some money for the shell (£60 a Ton round here).
5/ Free listing weekend so re-list everything that didn't sell and add the bits from Guff I.

Okay five out of eight isn't bad considering the weather was worse than predicted also the Repo'-cento took up most of my day yesterday, repairing and refitting the back bumper and taking the urine soaked passenger seat out so I could clean it with a pressure washer, upholstery shampoo, Vax and febreeze. I was offered a sub-box for an old stereo I found in my shed. Needed to find some way of seeing if it worked so...

[url]|http://thumbsnap.com/VqqvAPvh[/url]

...old school mix tape on the way to work this morning.

Now do I keep sub-box or bin it next free listing weekend?

[Relentless Rob]

Are those speaker mounts nailed to the dashboard? Classy!

Pop rivets.

I did it before I found out how rare the car is. In Car Entertainment should be what's under the bonnet in my opinion; but when I want to go fast I'll have Guff II soon(ish, maybe).

[Rob Bell]

In Car Entertainment should be what's under the bonnet in my opinion; but when I want to go fast I'll have Guff II soon(ish, maybe).

Ahmen to that! So the green Panda will the be the support car - makes sense

[Relentless Rob]

So the green Panda will the be the support car - makes sense

...and the red (soon to be blue and orange) car a test platform.

[Relentless Rob]

It's arrived!

[url]|http://thumbsnap.com/6FrevVLp[/url]

Sold the sub-box to pay for it.

[Relentless Rob]

So I have the 1368cc block, 1108cc head, 1272cc (866) cam, 769cc distributor and now I have a pair of...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230782987289? ... 500wt_1373

...TDM850 carb's. Now I just need some Duct-Tape and Guff II will have an engine.

Summary...

1368cc block was with a complete engine I paid £50 for.
1108cc head came with an engine and gear box I paid £32 for.
The cam' was £34 (from the Fiat Forum)
The Distributor came with the car.
Carb's £16
Fuel pump £10
Car itself £170
Roll cage material £73
Seat and Harness £30 (from Guff I)
Pollycarbnate front windows (from Guff I) £46
Brakes (also from Guff I if they'll fit) £100-ish
Wheels (Punto GT from Guff I) £34
Paint £20

£615

Minus £30 for the 750 engine and can I take money off for bits I've sold from donor parts? The 1368cc head and bits have now sold on eBay.

[Relentless Rob]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170834093604?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_500wt_1373

I was worried about the 1108 head fitting the 1368 block. So I found a 2008 Panda head for a Pound. £1 a Quid.

I sent the seller a message suggesting they re-list it if they're not happy with the price but are insistent they don't want it any more. So best case scenario it's basically a Punto 60 head and the 866 cam and distributor will fit; okay scenario the 2008 valves will be in much better condition then the 1997/1998 valves in the 1108 head and are an straight swap; worst case scenario I list the head and make a profit. At least I get to take the Fantasia on a road trip to Coventry to collect it later in the week.

[Relentless Rob]

Good news; bad news today...

Good news. The TDM carb's arrived and I can start thinking about fabricating a manifold.

Bad news. After an interesting road trip to Coventry to get the 2008 Panda head I get it home to find although it fits the 1368 2003 Punto block the cam is about a centimeter longer and thicker at the bearing end. Also the head is longer as well so the cam belt wouldn't go round the top pulley. Worst of all there's no way of fitting a distributor so even if the 866 cam', 16V belt and other bits fitted I'd have no way of making it run.

£20 worth of petrol and half a day to get myself a cool paper weight.

I'll finish stripping the spare 1108 head in the morning to see if it fits the block and once it's belted up I'll see if the crank and cam turn in harmony. If not I'll have to tune the Guff out of the £32 1108 engine in my shed.

[MFrV1]

So, a Panda's head will be back on Ebay soon then?

[Renrut]

Rob I've never seen anyone make something nominally so simple as fitting a bigger engine become so complex.

[Relentless Rob]

Rob I've never seen anyone make something nominally so simple as fitting a bigger engine become so complex.

If this was a straight forward engine swap it would be done. It would probably be cheaper, easier and nothing new or particularly interesting (to me at least). I've swapped Panda engines before that's why I chose the platform but this is an exploration. There are many schools of thought especially concerning the Fiat FIRE engine some prefer the 16V over the 8V engine; others prefer turbos to throttle body or bike carb' conversions. Okay I'm rejecting all the modern stuff like fuel injection, sixteen valves and computer controlled ignition; the last thing I want to be doing is looking at a laptop if the spark pugs need changing. Making a dizzy/carb' engine out of modern components is new ground for me and I'm enjoying myself doing it.

Traditional tuning combined with modern engineering. Best of both or doomed to fail? Keep watching the thread to find out.

Back on track I sold £30 worth of Guff stuff today and tapped a wealth of knowledge that has been completely priceless. Once again many thanks Damon for the advice, good luck with the race car and see you at the Pod.

Got some work done in the rain as well. The 1108 head now has the 866 cam' and it fits the 1368 block a treat.

It reminded me of an old soccer magazine advert. A kid hanging from a tree trying to get a football down with a caption "he wouldn't do this for a shuttle cock". We're out in our sheds/garages/driveways in all weathers I couldn't help but think, "I probably wouldn't be out here if I read Octane".

[Relentless Rob]

I mocked the engine together the other day while I had an expert handy.

[url]|http://thumbsnap.com/5jdZX6Eu[/url]

The X-1/9 carb' in place for now the TDM carb's are a back up plan (even though the TDM carb's and fuel pump were cheaper than the Webber).

One problem due to the block being taller the cam' belt from the both the 1108 and 1368 16V engines are too short...

[url]|http://thumbsnap.com/FtiN1UBt[/url]

...I'm advised that the Punto 75 belt will fit but there a local supplier who make custom belts to length.

[Relentless Rob]

So the standard 1108 cam' belt is...

[url]|http://thumbsnap.com/6UEEFqNi[/url]

...1015mm long and the belt needs to be...

[url]|http://thumbsnap.com/qVpXINte[/url]

...1020mm long.

Hmmmmmm....

Any ideas how to get engine grease from a tailors tape measure?