Very upgraded LPG Scimitar MV6 build

[loz]

A little update on the flywheel and clutch issues.

To recap you see the old and new flywheels below



And this is the original clutch


and here is the 2.2 228mm clutch I'll be trying (hopefully it won't slip)


The light flywheel is much thinner where the 8 bolts go through so I've had to make up 16mm spacers to keep the same bolt grip length and thread engagement. But I could only find 11mm spacers so I bought a load and turned some of them down on the lathe you can see in these photos (one with flash one without)



More to come on the wiring later.

[majic79]

I'd be wary about making up spacers - they're part of a balanced-rotating assembly - why not use the bolts for a flex plate (such as a torque converter would bolt to in an auto-box application)? They should be shorter and in matched weight sets

[loz]

I'm worried about this now! Having done a little search I think the flex plates are thinner still and the holes are only about 2mm deeper than they need to be in the crank so its kinda tight. If I fit bolts meant for a 6mm flex plate they might bottom out in the bolt holes.

I studdied bolted joints in great detail when I was at Cummins Engines (yawn) and in an environment where vibration is high there needs to a large grip length (the length from under the bolt head to the first engaged thread, in their documents that was recommended to be at least 1.5 times the nominal bolt diameter so in this case at least 15mm. The light flywheel is only 10mm thick around the bolts

Thats a really good point about the balance, to be fair some of the ones I turned down are 5mm and some are 5.5mm thick so this is also a good point for using flexplate bolts. I could weigh each spacer and pair them up to help the balance, or I could try and find a suitable length bolt from an earlier flywheel vauxhall and sod the grip length arguement???????

I'm not trying to perswade anyone I'm doing the right thing, I'm just thinking aloud and worrying a little please keep your thoughts coming.

[majic79]

I work for a gas turbine company, the engines we sell are balanced within an inch of their lives! Actaully, on a good day, the vibration will be less than 4 micrometers - alarm limits are usually around 60micrometers and shutdown at 80

Worked out the relative forces on a 0.5g imbalance at around 5cms (about the point that flywheel bolts go in on a smallish engine) - will be approximately 1kg of force at the end of the crank @ 6000RPM (about 10N), I can't be sure how much it'll deflect, but it won't help things! (force goes up as weight goes up or distance increases or as revs increase)

I'd try and find the right bolts, crank bolts are usually rolled rather than cut thread as well. I wouldn't even use washers to space them out. I went to main dealer and got the right bolts when I changed out my flywheel for a lightweight one - it's one of the few times I'd pay main-stealer prices!

[loz]

Alright I'm convinced, I'll go and ask about flexpate bolts at vauxhall and I'm going to ring the supplier of the flywheel and as what they use too.

I went to the main dealer to get these bolts

But in the interest of doing things right I'll get more, I was worried about the spacers too, especially as the turning process with have introduced a slight error between the two ends of the spacer not being flat.

Thanks for the calcs Majic, introducing imbalance would definatly be a bad thing, wearing the rear bearing more than normal.

I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks for the help.

[majic79]

I'd hold off spending money and see if you can find out what the right bolts you need are - I'll have a chat with one of our vibration specialists - he'll be able to give me a better answer about what's acceptable for vibration forces

[loz]

An Update!

Been away visiting family for a three day weekend so did nothing over the weekend on the car. Started again today.

I did the obvious thing and called the company that supplied and have fitted many of these flywheels, they gave me a part number, I called vauxhall and it turns out to be a 25mm bolt giving 9mm grip length and 16mm thread engagement that was easy!

I got some fittings to take hoses off to the oil stat and cooler


but for now (and in an effort to get it running this sommer) I've simply put one hose accross to the other.


As far as the engine is concerned the wiring is all finished, it took quite a few phone calls to the ECU people (Canems) who were very helpful especially considering I haven't even bought their ECU yet (I promised I will). I've reused the motronic ECU connector from the omega and soldered all the wiring through that so now the engine electronics can be disconnected in one go with the exception of the large cable coming from the battery. I've butched the old ECU to make a bulkhead mounted socket that the engine will plug into. Although its been a massive amount of work, and there is still the bulkhead connector and car wiring to do, it should save a lot of time in the future, when changing bits over and getting the engine out for whatever reason.


I got a new spigot bearing so used the grease and hammer trick to get the old one out.


Then with the new spigot bearing in place bolted up the new flywheel with its 25mm bolts and no spacers




I had to make up a clutch alignment tool on the lathe (its pretty rough) and it took forever to get the clutch locating dowels out of the duel mass flywheel, but the clutch is now fitted



I'm STILLLLLLLLLLL WAITING for the last hub to be done so I went into town again today (hour round trip) to collect the old whobbly one so I can move the car about, I saw the box of bits I took in is still in exactly the same place I left it in the machin shop. I just want hubs with holes in the right places.

I'm pleased with todays progress though.

More to come

[tommi]

ive discovered that if you go into a machine shop you have to be very direct in asking for times of things to be complete. many a time have i given them free time span and it gets brushed under a desk and they get pissed of if you ask for progress updates, very often they say there very busy at the momment but what sort of buisness turns down private cash paying customers????

[majic79]

what sort of buisness turns down private cash paying customers????

Or any sort of paying customer for that matter - esp in this financial climate!

[loz]

Yes, the conversation I've had sound just like what you're describing, I'll have to get on his case and get the job done.

Had a good day today, put the gearbox on


Just trying the engine for size and where to position it. It sits nicely in there there is loads of room at the back of the engine when the front is about an inch from the crossmember, but its low at the mo.





The thing I'd overlooked when messing about at the back of the engine was the cluch hose, at the moment thats fouling on the bulkhead so I'm thinking of bending it, or cutting the a hole in the bulkhead. Hopefully I'll get round to mounting it tomorrow, but there is loads to consider first. On that note, I put the new handbrake cable on, then headed to the rear calipers to connect the cable up and remembered I've got to make up some more caliper mounts that are intrergral to the bearing retainers of the axle. Long story short, the old rear brake conversion used spacers behind the discs to space them out but with redrilling hte PCD I don't have spacers that fit so I'll do the job properly now

Then I went to the front and started removing all the dash to figure out what parts of the transmission tunnel need cutting.

More to come.

[loz]

I'm hacked off with the pace of work today!!!

I've got 6 weeks off from work, and its evaporating quickly with little to show (last two day anyway). The bl**dy angle grinder gave up at about 5pm leaving me with loads of 3mm steel and a hack saw to make engine mounts with I got one done (I even measured twice) but it was still too short! So I need to make more tomorrow, what I really need now are brushes for an Bosch PWS600 angle grinder, There are plently on ebay but I need them now not in a week. Does B&Q sell them? screwfix? Anyone bought any before??

Heres a few piccies

I took the hose off and gently bent it in the vice this helped with clearance.


Here's the beginnings of a short engine mount


God I hope I get more done tomorrow

[loz]

I had a really good day today, for the first time in a while. Here are the start of the engine mounts (take two)


I added the bits that were cut off fromt he omega


Took about 2 hours checking everything was perfectly lined up, this was a really iterative process, every time something was lined up, it would be out of line somewhere else, here's the jig thingy I used to line up the gearbox centrally.


Eventually got them welded in place



And Primed



Then I started on the gearbox mount, I reused the exhasut mount from the back of the gearbox to give the gearbox mount a bit more height and bring it forward a bit.


Gave it a bit more strength, I was really prowd of this welding and the shape of the structure



The I tried bolting it in place and found what yo've probably noticed already, I welded it on the wrong way. It seems I've got to do everything twice
So here is the gearbox mount (take two)


From looking at Nath's photos (over and over again) it seems my engine is about 2-3 inches further forward. Obviously this isn't a good thing, but its means I have more room to play with when trying to make the tubular manifold and I didn't want to cut the bulkhead about, that looked like a lot of work. I'm happy with where the engine is height wise though, there is an inch of clearance under the bonnet and the sump sticks out below the chassis rails no more than 2 inches.

I started on the gearlever assembly it turns out for my installation I can use the holes provided and simply cut the excess.



I really hope tomorrow is as good as today was

[majic79]

on the subject of angle grinders - mine cost me a tenner, so I got two! When one packs up, I'll use the other and pick up another one - machine mart is handy for bargains like that.

Maybe it was a bit more than that, it was certainly cheap enough that I'm never going to service it. It's also handy having a plasma cutter - the only downside to that is that the edges get so badly oxidised (it is cutting with compressed oxygen, so no surprise there) they're a bitch to weld. You can dress that out if you've got a bench grinder though, a quick pass is usually enough to get down to clean metal, worth the money, ours was a bargain basement chinese model and gets plenty of use when we're doing odd shapes

[loz]

I bought a cheapy from B&Q once, and it gave up in less than 48 hours, so I went and spent about 3 times as much on the bosch one I have now, its taken some serious abuse, and been through about 31 million cutting discs, so I want to keep it going

Today was a little slower but good progress was made.

I started off today puting the engine back in with the newly painted gearbox mount, and extending the clutch hose. I initially tried brake line as I thought this is what Nath had used but it seemed far to small in diameter so I stole some of the 6mm LPG copper line from the omega this fits a treat and I went and got some nut and bolt type jubilee clips to make sure they don't slide off.


I can take some more off the car if you want some too Phil? bring it to Curbs maybe??

Then I started thinking about mounting the gear lever assembly properly, I cut the suround off the omega to recycle it


After doing the usual 3 hours measuring and staring it, I was happy nothing would foul and it was suitably mounted, it also seems to come up in a great position, I couldn't resist putting the seat in and trying it out


I spend a while each day just looking at the car (don't judge, you're all guilty of doing it) this was the best view today


So nest thing was to fibreglass the surround in. I found to things to hold it in place


Then started building up the fibre filler underneith it and eventually stuck it in place


Then the large gap needed filling, I put some ali sheet in a plastic bag and put it in the right place under where I wanted the fibreglass to go, you can jsut see the bag slicking out above the garage lamp under the glass fibre sheet.


Did a couple of layers, removed the ali and peeled the bag off and this is where I got to.


I'll give it lots more strenght tomorrow and finish and paint it hopefully then with any luck put the engine in for the last time.

More to come

[mitsuru]

What did you use the lpg pipe for? (brake fuel lpg?)