The rules....?

[Renrut]

Where the h**l did this new rule come from?

A race seat increases performance as your held in better (same with a harness) plus the lighter wieght.

A cage make you feel safer helping performance, tightens up the car and can help you loose weight. I've a couple of Fiat Pandas here, we can get a standard car down to 600kg, with a bolt-in 6 point we can get it down to 500kg (thats including the 80kg of the cage) and still have a more taught shell.

The whole ethos of this competition was to work to a budget!!!

TBF a panda would be more rigid if you jammed a piece of 2x4 across the B pillars

Not being silly but I can't see any benefit in accounting pure safety items. The question is a cage a pure safety item? I don't know the answer to that but my gut feeling is that its unlikely to be of benefit in a £999 type event while still being 'mot-able'.

Genuinely curious now - what sort of weight loss does a panda have to suffer to get down to 420kg? The engine alone must be over 100kg of that. Another 100kg on wheels and tyres + brakes?

[Jaffa]

Engine 100kg
wheels and hubs 100kg

what more is there? that's it

[TeamTotalWankel]

with a bolt-in 6 point we can get it down to 500kg (thats including the 80kg of the cage) and still have a more taught shell.

Just out of interest, is a Panda still roadworthy and MOT'able with 180kg of its shell removed? Sounds like such a Panda'll be virtually extinct

[tommi]

carbon fibre panda super-legga

[Renrut]

Engine 100kg
wheels and hubs 100kg

what more is there? that's it

Shell, suspension, all the electrics (can be well over 20kg of wire and switchgear in something the size of a panda), seats, steering stuff, lights.

I'd genuinely like to hear how you get a panda down to that weight. I know cars of similar ages and sizes struggle to get much below 600kg without resorting to very expensive components e.g. fabricated rather than cast suspension. That said I don't know pandas very well.

[Steve33]

I saw a panda jeep thing on ebay the rear roof and cpillars missing and a big cage tying it all together.
They must need a cage if you make it faster dont know weight but cant be more than 800 kg with one fitted.

[owelly]

If you've removed so much car to need a cage to make it work, you're looking at a spaceframe which should be in the budget.

[Renrut]

Is this where I point at the elephant in the room called Modified Monocoque?

[sportpanda]

Is this where I point at the elephant in the room called Modified Monocoque?

The caged Panda is a pure racer, not for road use (and not in the £999). There may be some monocoque mods but you have to know your Pandas to spot them . Currently we have no carbon panels but when we do we will only loose another 15kg

It has to be said that every part has been looked at to see if material can be removed, if there is a lighter replacement(that is cheepish) or is the part needed at all.

[Renrut]

Are we comparing apples and pears again?

[Rob Bell]

I don't think anyone really cares what the rule is here, so long as it is obvious and cars come along that are within the spirit of the competition.

A vehicle that is little more than a roll cage with suspension fitted should have the roll cage counted in the budget, but having a cage I think is a good idea, safety wise. I can see where people are struggling with the idea of the cage, but I reckon they add weight, and for the kind of competition we're looking at, probably won't add any measurable benefit.

But if we decided to state that safety equipment should simply define fire suppression equipment only, then that's fine with me.

Personally I would not include seats as Safety Equipment, but harnesses would be eligible IMO.

Perhaps we should leave it to the editorial board to decide - getting a democratic decision that pleases everyone is not likely to provide an answer within the next millennium

[924]

To quote

"...keep within the spirit of the competition..."

"...If you cheat the only person you’re cheating is yourself and no one will be impressed with you..."

That's what I'm sticking to.

My ethos is to turn up, have a good time, see some great "creations", meet some old friends, make some new friends & have a laugh at my own & other expense.

If I come last, I come last....anything higher than that I see as a bonus.

[Renrut]

Sportpanda - do you have a linky to this anorexic panda? I'm genuinely intrigued and want to see whats left of it

[rjudgey]

Hi Quick question, I got a pair of webers on mine but haven't any filters that will fit over the rampipes do I really have to get something as I can't find anything cheap best ones new are gonna be £50!! It's not like they're gonna make them any quieter!! Seems like a bit of a daft rule to me but please can someone just help me find some cheap to borrow on the day or tell me not to worry.
thanks Richard

[tommi]

i have been running my bike carbs with no filters for over 1000 miles and a hole in the bonnet. no problems. just leave them off.

my car loves to eat flys